patching...
Welcome back, Patch Blogger!

SCBC President: Forgiven Gingrich Tops Mormon Romney

South Carolinians grappling with issues of faith and fidelity will vote for the philanderer who's asked for forgiveness over the man who's not a Christian, the Rev. Brad Atkins said.

 

When South Carolinians take to the polls on Jan. 21, two of the major contenders they'll see on the Republican ballot will invoke thoughts of more than just political views.

They will raise the issues of faith, fidelity and the very definition of Christianity in a state where God and the gospel are staples as culturally entrenched as grits.

On one side is current frontrunner Newt Gingrich, who has a double-digit lead but continues to be haunted by questions about his infidelity and two failed marriages.

On the other is former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, the man in second place who has been married to the same woman for more than 40 years with no such baggage.

The new president of the S.C. Baptist Convention, a part of the Southern Baptist Convention (the largest religious group in the state with nearly 1,900 churches and 900,000 adherents in 2000), says the choice is clear.

The Rev. Brad Atkins, tabbed in November to lead the group for the coming year, told Patch on Friday that while Gingrich's infidelities may represent a major obstacle for some Christian voters, it isn't an issue that necessarily excludes the former speaker from consideration. Rather, it's an issue that calls for prayerful consideration of Gingrich's numerous public confessions to his wrongdoings.

The issue presented by Romney's faith may be more deeply rooted to South Carolinians.

"In South Carolina, Romney's Mormonism will be more of a cause of concern than Gingrich's infidelity," said Atkins, the pastor at Powdersville First Baptist Church in the Upstate.

"Conservatives can process and pray their way through the issue of forgiveness toward a Christian that has had infidelity in their life, but will struggle to understand how anyone could be a Mormon and call themselves 'Christian.'"

Some political experts think Gingrich faces a tougher test within his own party over his past failures than he would in a general election if he were to pull out the nomination.

Robert Oldendick, executive director of the Institute for Public Service and Policy Research at the University of South Carolina, said that in any other year, Gingrich's personal history would present a major issue. In a general election, scenario, however, it is likely to be but a minor one, for three key reasons. 

Firstly, Gingrich's personal issues are old news that many voters have already confronted and judged. Secondly, because Gingrich is now the frontrunner, any attacks made based on his infidelities is likely to occur by his conservative competitors. Thirdly, Gingrich has thus far been able to deflect such attacks successfully, as evidenced by his strong poll presence.

"His 'I made mistakes; I hope people will judge me on who I am now,' seems to be acceptable to the independent voters that he will need in the general election," Oldendick said.

The fact that America still faces high unemployment, a weak housing market and a slowed economic recovery would only make attacks from the other side of the aisle not only likely ineffective, but poor strategy.

When Gingrich was calling for Clinton's head in the 1990s, he was doing so when America was not facing economic turmoil. Now that Gingrich is under the spotlight, his moral shortcomings may seem trivial compared to the macro-level issues being considered.

"It would be difficult — and probably not a good strategy — for the Democrats to make 'family values' an important theme of the general election," Oldendick said.

"The 2012 election will turn overwhelmingly on the economy, and to the extent that the glimmer of good economic news that has been seen in the past couple of months continues through late October, President Obama's re-election chances are enhanced."

Americans' narrow focus on the economy is one Atkins considers myopic, ill-informed and wrong.

"The tragedy is that again this year the majority of committed Christians that will have registered and be able to vote, when push comes to shove, will cast their vote for a candidate on jobs — the economy," Atkins said.

"As a state, and as a country, this has sadly been our track record. I believe that God is not going to bless this nation again and bring us out of this economic disaster until we repent and start focusing on the moral, spiritual issues. Abortion, infanticide, marriage between a man and a woman and homosexuality have to take center stage."

Still, the state's fascination with religion may make otherwise longshots more competitive with Romney, who has been firmly planted in the top tier of the GOP field from the get-go.

"Both (Texas Gov. Rick) Perry and (Minnesota Rep. Michele) Bachmann will most likely fare better in South Carolina because of their openness to discuss their faith, but Gingrich can also speak about his Christian faith and values very openly as well," Atkins said.

And while Romney has been married to the same woman for more than 40 years, the fact that he's a Mormon receives different consideration from some South Carolinian christians who are willing to forgive Gingrich's behavior as merely past actions, and not a worldview.

"Since most believers have had at least some moral failings, our only consideration should be where they are presently according to their own testimony. Christians must always give the 'benefit of the doubt.' Where the candidate is now is the main issue," Atkins said.

"It (Gingrich's past) will probably have a greater impact on his electability in South Carolina than some other states because, at least to some degree, we remain a morally conservative state. However, we have to accept his confession that he has made mistakes, has asked for God's forgiveness in regards to those, and that he is deeply committed to his wife now. There will be many voters in not only South Carolina, but also around our nation that will pray over this issue as they consider him as a potential candidate for president."

Danielle Vinson, who chairs Furman University's political science department, said while she believes Gingrich's past is a mainly a primary, not a general election issue, that opponents could have an opening that broaches the topic of more than his mere personal failures. 

"Gingrich's personal life might surface in the general election as part of a larger storyline about whether he has the character and steadiness to lead or as part of his own political hypocrisy over the years — criticizing Clinton's affair while carrying on his own, changing positions on issues, and that sort of thing," Vinson said.

"In the general election, it won't be the infidelity itself but rather what it says when combined with other episodes about his character and leadership abilities."

Jack Hoey Jr., chief operations officer at Mount Pleasant-based megachurch Seacoast, said Gingrich, like all candidates, is flawed. But voters will must determine on their own how to proceed in light of those flaws.
 
“Is infidelity wrong? Yes,” Hoey said. “Is infidelity worse than other sins? No. If you’re applying that and trying to understand that, you can’t just look at it as if it is a flawed candidate amidst a group of perfect candidates.”
 
Although faith played a role in political decisions, Hoey said the election was not really a “Christian issue” but rather an issue for society at large.
 
“People are going to have their own take on whether someone with a checkered past is most capable to do this job,” Hoey said. “Some people would put his past aside if they think he would do a good job. Some people would say, competence aside, ‘I could never vote for someone I couldn’t trust to date my daughter.’
 
“As a church, we don’t try to say, 'here’s the way you should think about it.' From our point of view, that’s something people are going to handle in their own ways.”

  • What matters more to you?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • Newt Gingrich's personal history
        1111 (81%)
    • Mitt Romney's Mormon faith
        260 (18%)
    Total votes: 1371
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, South Carolina Primary, infidelity, and marital infidelity

J Steen

1:42 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

"Forgiven"?

Gingrich has been "forgiven" for the ruination his party of pederastic liars has brought upon our Nation ? FORGIVEN BY WHOM ?

I find it LAUGHABLE that "reverend" Atkins, who probably has a mail-order "degree" from some silly "university", claims to have the power to grant "forgiveness" to a reptilian liar of the caliber of serial adulterer Gingrich.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Tonto

6:50 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Yea, we need a real whore like Clinton. He knew how to use the oval office without inhaling :)

Comment_arrow

ev

8:57 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Alan you made my day today...lol Evangellicals are the hypocrits of the Christian religion. they are the worse of the worst but I digress. The entire discussion is dealing with Mormonism versus Christianity. I could care less what religion you are but do not try to appease folks by saying you are a Christian when you are not. Romney is a MORMON which is not part of the Christian sect. That my friend is a fact. Historically look up Josesph Adams the founding "father". Obviously you are an illiterate who watches Fox and that speaks for itself. Have a nice day and give my regards to your wives.........lol

Comment_arrow

Caleb

4:25 pm on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

@ev: Joseph Adams? Sounds like you have really done your research, unlike your fox news watching "illiterate" counterpart... The founder of the Mormon church is Joseph Smith, smart guy.

Comment_arrow

Joe Mormon

4:16 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

ev, sorry that you have been given so much misinformation. I'm sure you are wise enough not to believe everything you read or hear about Mormons. If you want to know what The Church of Jesus Christ teaches some good resources are the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Mormon org, LDS org etc. Check them out. : )

David Ferriman

1:48 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Too bad Romney failed the religion test. While I wouldn't vote for him due to his stance on the actual issues he talks about, it is too bad that he is not the right kind of Christian for the job. Ironic seeing that Jesus Christ himself wasn't a Christian, making "Mormon Mitt" more of a Christian than the God he prays to.

Reply
Comment_arrow

ev

3:43 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

David Mormoniism is not never has been a part of the Christian faith....look it up! romney claims to be a Christian he is not never has and never will be...surprise ...he lies!

Comment_arrow

Mikedudical

4:27 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

@ ev. The official name of Mitt's church is, The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints. What part of 'Jesus Christ' do you not understand? They are not a Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish sect, but there is no question at all that they are follower of Christ and thus "Christians". You have to realize that Evangelicals don't own the rights to who get's called a Christian. There are a lot of "Christians" who aren't very Christian at all.

Comment_arrow

ev

5:20 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Mike why would you go to the web site of the Mormon church? If you want the truth go to wikpedia or google. They use Jesus's name to try to get accepted....look up its history, it speaks for itself.

Comment_arrow

Mikedudical

6:30 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

@ ev. I would go to the LDS.org or Mormon.org website because I believe that when Christ said, "by their fruits ye shall know them" I take His word for it. If I let the Pharisee tell me what Christ taught I probably wouldn't get a fair representation now would I? The Mormons can define their own beliefs, they don't need rival church groups defining them for them. Simply put ev. Mitt Romney will win the GOP nomination. There just is nobody else #1, and #2 Mitt has the tenacity and money to crush anyone in his path to POTUS. Perry, Cain, Bachman, Gingrich, et al. The sooner you grow up and shake loose the religious bigotry the better. Mitt's faith has nothing to do with how he would lead our Country.

Comment_arrow

Tonto

6:51 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Yea, much better to have a muslim communist running things :(

Comment_arrow

ev

7:23 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Mike you are an idiot! From the get go I never belittled anyones faith. What I questioned and stated as a matter of fact that Mormonism is not and never has been related to the Christian faith.You are obviously a follower of Fox hate and fear.Islam recognizes Jesus in the Koran so using your misguided logic will you now say that Islam is Christian. Smith got his golden tablet while high on peyote or some other drug....so tell me where is the tablet. Again I never questioned Mutts faith , you did . Wha tI said and I will say it again he said he is a Christian....he isn't. Mutt is a liar and a flip flopper and he will lose to President Obama...a decent man!

Comment_arrow

ev

11:25 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Why Mormons Are Not Christian.

First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.

The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

Comment_arrow

Alan

11:40 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

EV, you evangelicals believe that Masons are cultic too. But we've had 13 Masonic Presidents. I just can't get over your hypocritical bigotry.

Comment_arrow

ev

9:03 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Hey Linda...Brainwashed you are...How can the tablets be with God if they were given to Joseph Adams by God??? Why would he hide what was meant for man??? I think with the price of gold nearing $2000 an oz, tht he has had them melted and sold. Have a good day and may all the Gods of all religions bless you....amen

Comment_arrow

Chris Bolton

11:15 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Mormon's Articles of Faith say that the first principle of the gospel is "Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ". They believe that Jesus is Lord and Savior and no man cometh unto the Father but by him. Mormons trust in Jesus for a remission of their sins and rely on him for resurrection from the dead.

Mormons don't believe in the man made Creeds written centuries after Jesus. The Bible says that we shouldn't rely in the "arm of flesh" (men). LDS believe in the Bible instead. Men make mistakes. Mormon authorities too. If someone wants to quote a Mormon authority from 150 years ago and claim it to be official doctrine, then don't be surprised if others do the same to you and your Church. Martin Luther was a rabid anti-semite and believed that the Book of James should be removed from the Bible. Was Martin Luther a Christian? The Southern Baptist Convention formed when it claimed that it was fine for Christians to own slaves. All faiths have issues and aren't perfect.

The Bible says that the Father has committed all judgement to the Son. Jesus has not subcontracted it out to the Southern Baptist Convention. They aren't the ones who get to determine who is and who isn't a Christian.

Remember, Barak Obama attended a Church that believed in the Creeds. Perhaps you creedal Christians should vote for him over Romney.

By their fruits, you shall know them. That applies to Romney, Gingrich and Obama. Think long and hard on that.

Comment_arrow

stanley seigler

11:50 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

@Chris Bolton "Mormons don't believe in the man made Creeds written centuries after Jesus."

FYI
"The Bible was written over a span of 1500 years by 40 different authors on 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe) in 3 different languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek) on hundreds of subjects."

@Mikedudical: Simply put ev. Mitt Romney will win the GOP nomination...Mitt has the tenacity and money to crush anyone in his path to POTUS.

COMMENT
indeed he will win the GOP nomination. But;

BO in a landslide nov 2012...wanta bet $10,000 :)

Rick Duerden

2:22 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Marital infidelity isn't just a "mistake," nor is it like any other sin. Newt made a vow, took an oath, and then violated that oath--again and again. That's not a mistake, that's a pattern that shows depraved character. Anyone out there really and truly confident that he would respect an oath of office any better than a vow of fidelity?

Reply

Mikedudical

2:43 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Should we release Jesus or the thief from the cross? This is the GOP's chance to get it right and I think the Reverend has made it clear who he would set free.

Reply
Comment_arrow

J Steen

2:46 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

The "reverend" is merely a tool of a morally bankrupt RepubliKlan party.

Alan

2:49 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

This doesn't surprise me at all. Some evangleicals need to have a closer look at Isaiah 5:20:
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

Reply

ev

3:26 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

I have no problem with what religion you choose, my problem with Mitt Romney is he chooses to lie about his own....to appease Christians he states that Mormonism is a Christian faith. It is not! Look up the facts especially about Joseph Smith who was (he claims) on a mountain (high on qualuuds) when he says he had a vision with an angel. The angel he claims gave him a golden tablet which is the foundation of the Mormon church. Whem I asked the question at the Mormon Tabernacle where the tablet is the response...."it was lost" okay and so has Romney ...lost the election!

Reply
Comment_arrow

Alan

3:50 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Wow. Do some research yourself. And don't try to tell Mormons what they believe, you will lose that argument every time.

Comment_arrow

Rick Duerden

3:56 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Here we have some ill-informed bigotry about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose behavior as well as theology are just as truly Christian (if not more so) than the behavior or theology of the self-appointed judges.

Comment_arrow

Mikedudical

6:38 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

@ ev. You know nothing about what Mormons believe. You are about as ignorant as they get.

Stephen Colbert said it best; "Mormons claim Joseph Smith received Gold Plates from an Angel on a Hill....when we all know that it was Moses, who received Stone Tablets from a Burning Bush, on a Mountain".

The lesson here ev is that an attack on any religion is an attack on ALL religion.

Comment_arrow

LindaSDF

6:25 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

You do not know what we believe, since you obviously have only read anti-Mormon propaganda. You claim Joseph Smith was high on a mountain, when he was not, and that he was high on qualuuds, which he was not. The tablets are not lost, they are with God, where ever He has them hidden, to be found in HIS good time, not ours.

Comment_arrow

Julie

11:08 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

... First question... Earlier you stated something about Joseph Adams. Who the heck is Joseph Adams? Oh, you must mean Joseph SMITH... Moron. I don't understand why you can't believe or see that Mormons are also Christian. The entire cornerstone of their religion is the atonement of JESUS CHRIST.

Comment_arrow

Teryl

5:32 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

After learning about Mormons, ex-President Jimmy Carter stated that those of his religion (Baptist?) that claimed that Mormons aren't Christians are Pharisees. I believe that those who would exclude Mormons are the vocal minority.

Clavell Jackson

3:32 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Here a piece of advice for the Evangelicals and social conservatives. Americans are obsessed with sex and scandal. And Newt's infidelities sell better than Mitt's religion. You may have forgiven him, but a lot of the nation, especially women haven't. But Newt, an overweight lech married to a woman young enough to be his wife, has plenty in common with leading conservative figures such as Rush Limbaugh and John McCain. This is their idea of family values, a new wife every 10 years.

Reply
Comment_arrow
Patch_comments_icon

Shawn Drury

3:52 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Just for the record, Mr. Gingrich is 68, Mrs. Gingrich 45.

Ray Wadsworth

4:34 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

This issue of Mormons not being Christians is strange to me! Go to www.Mormon.org , or step into any Mormon church and look over the hymnal or ask a Mormon about it. Even look at the real name of the church! Get a free copy of a book of Mormon. Is the world flat?

Reply

Brian

5:01 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Anybody find it ironic that this Baptist Reverend rejected Romney based on his religion, and then endorsed Gingrich who left the Baptist faith to become a Catholic.

Reply

Clavell Jackson

6:01 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

I find it ironic, because as an ex-Catholic who lived in the South, I can tell you that most Southern Baptists don't consider Catholics to be true Christians. And as for the Church of LDS, any church that proclaims a new set of books, which differ wildly from the old and new testaments, and also says that after death adherents get to live on their own planet and become gods, and also says that Jesus and Satan were once brothers, is clearly heretical!

Reply
Comment_arrow

Mikedudical

6:40 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

That actually isn't true Clavell. I challenge you to go to LDS.org and find me 1 thing that Mormons teach that isn't Biblical.

Comment_arrow

Teryl

5:07 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

The beliefs of modern Christians have largely been decided upon by argument and debate. Mormons believe that we are God's children in a literal sense, not a figurative one. Paul wrote that we are "heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ" if we are faithful. What is a joint-heir? It is a child who inherits an equal portion with another child. The term "joint-heir" implies that Jesus must be our brother, the only scenario that allows us to be joint-heirs of God with him. As for being a brother of Satan, one person's choice to do evil does not diminish another person. This strategy of linking Jesus and Satan is used to "shock" people against Mormons, and for no other purpose. Mainstream Christians believe that Jesus created Satan. Which is worse, to be Satan's brother, or to create him, knowing what he would do?
As for the doctrine of theosis or divinization, it wasn't the Mormons that invented it. There are many scholarly sources indicating that this doctrine was believed by ancient Christians. Irenaeus stated that God became man that man might know how to become god. Early Christians have made many such statements. So unless you have actually studied what the original Christians believed, you are in no position to declare a belief a heresy. Also, for those who deny that Israel ever believed in a female god, I recommend the writings of Margaret Barker, or the article "Did God have a wife" by William Dever, both non-Mormons. You'll learn how much you don't know.

Ray Swenson

6:13 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Why is it forgivable to be a serial adulterer who carried on an affair for years, but not forgivable to believe in a brand of Christianity that 40,000 Southern Baptists a year are joining? Oh, I guess that tells you why Baptist ministers are scared of Mormons, even if they are taking the heat of liberals and gays in defending traditional marriage against unlimited sexual deviation and abortion.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Kyle

7:44 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

well said, I believe the Mormon non-page clergy might make the evangelicals downright sour!

Comment_arrow

Roger Gunn

9:57 pm on Sunday, December 25, 2011

Ray ...you hit the nail on the head! Thank you. The Reverends of the Southern Baptist church are trying as hard as they can to keep their parishioners (and their money) from converting to the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. Why else would anybody stand up to the pulpit and preach the hate and lies I hear coming from you?

Ray Swenson

6:27 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Recent national studies have shown that Mormons live more consistently with Christian values than many other denominations. The book Almost Christian explains that Mormon parents do a better job than other Christians in persuading their teenagers to live committed to the parents' faith, and articulate why they believe as they do.

Mormons fast from food one day a montj and donate tjeir food money to help the poor. Mormons donate labor to raise food that us given free to the unemployed and to people in disaster areas like the Gulf Coast after hurricanes. All local and regional Mormon pastors are unpaid parttimets who eatn their owm living and don't make the chirch members pay them, and every five years someone else in the congregation rotates into that assignment. Mormons as young men and women donate two years to missionary service in one of 150 countries. And what tjey preach includes the testimony that Christ has risen from the dead and is redeemer of all mankind. They pray to the Father in the name of the Son, and baptize on the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Every Sunday they take communion in memory of the body and blood of Christ. The sincerity of the Mormons persuades

Reply

Ray Swenson

6:34 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Go to lds.org and you can see the same books and magazines and lesson manuals that Moons use to teach their children and fellow church members. You can watch the messages preached at the General Conference held every April and October and judge for youraelf if they sound like Christians. Every year, thousands of Catholics, Baptists and Methodists decide that they can become betyer Christians by joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints.

Reply

Ray Swenson

6:37 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

The president is NOT the national pastor in chief. He or she has secular duties. Moral leadership can be given by Mormons, just as they led the supporters of Prop 8 in California to reinstate normal marriage.

Reply

Ray Swenson

6:48 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Remember when Bill Clinton was forgiven for his adulteries and elected. He used his position as president to turn an intern into his personal prostitute on the Fedetal payroll. Having a membership as a Southern Baptist does not improve the character of a man who lived a lie for years. Relyong on words instead of proven character gave us a president who taught the youth of America that fornication is no big deal, and made Baptists look like hypocrites.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Tonto

6:55 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

The perfect candidate for the dems would be a whore like Clinton who didn't inhale, was muslim, and a closet communist all wrapped up in one :)

Clavell Jackson

7:10 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

The LDS church has made a conscious effort to meld its teachings with mainstream Christianity, but on closer inspections its views are very different. For eg, the belief that god was once mortal and has a wife.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Christianity

Oh and there is also that thing about not letting black men become priests until 1978, when they had a revelation, just before they got their tax exempt status revoked by the U.S. government.

And there is the belief about the sacred underwear. Sorry I don't remember reading that in any Bibles or hearing it in Sunday School.

So Mormons have wacky ideas. So what? Is believing that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israelies any wackier than believing in a talking snake?

Reply
Comment_arrow

Mormons Are Christian

3:55 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Sacred clothing has been around for a long time: Exodus: :Moses and his sons went to the door of the tabernacle and were washed with water. Moses put on the holy garments and was anointed with oil."

Comment_arrow

Julie

11:12 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Dude.... Please have a better argument than a link to Wikipedia.. You look like you are in high school.

Comment_arrow

Teryl

5:21 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Mormons don't vote on doctrine. Either Jesus established the church, or it is just another church of men. Didn't God give the priesthood only to the tribe of Levi in Moses' day? Explain that, together with the scripture that says that He is no respecter of persons (is not biased). It's funny how many people believe they know why God does things, or how He should do things.
Clothing has symbolic value and is very much a part of Judaism, ancient Christianity., and many religions.

Comment_arrow

Kyle

7:46 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Clavell: He who speaks, words without knowledge.

Clavell Jackson

7:14 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

The reference to Muslims is a jab at Obama, who is clearly a pork eating, beer swilling Christian. And by the way, communism is defined as state controlled capitalism. So therefore since GWB propped up the banks by pumping billions, if not trillions, into the banking sector, that would make him a communist. Also most hardcore communists are atheists, so it would be difficult to be a Muslim and a communist. Look it up dude, before you start throwing epithets around.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Tonto

8:24 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Well I guess this strange mix explains why everything is in the toilet now doesn't it. Ah.... and yes, Rev Wright what an inspiration :)

Rick Duerden

7:20 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Romney does have some beliefs that disqualify him for leading the country. He thinks tax cuts are a panacea, corporations are people, and we should dismantle our social safety net. In other words, he's a Republican. Talk about values that are contrary to Christianity!!

Reply

Mormons Are Christian

8:05 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Mormons’ theology is based on New Testament Christianity, not Fourth Century Creeds. For example, the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views on Baptism, Lay Ministry, the Trinity, Theosis, Grace vs. Works, the Divinity of Jesus Christ comport more closely with Early Christianity than any other denomination. And Mormons’ teenagers have been judged to “top the charts” in Christian Characteristics by a UNC-Chapel Hill study. Read about it here:

http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com

Those who question if the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is a Christian denomination usually are mis-informed because New Testament Christianity is closer to Jesus Christ’s teachings than Fourth Century Creeds. Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other denomination, according to a 2010 Pew Forum poll:

http://www.pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx

11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence (including several presidents) were non-Trinitarian Christians. Those who now insist on their narrow Trinitarian and salvation only by grace definition of Christianity for candidates for public office are doing our Republic an injustice.

Reply
Comment_arrow

ev

11:28 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Why Mormons Are Not Christian.

First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.

The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

Comment_arrow

Kyle

7:49 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

ev: actually mainstream christians do not worship the same Jesus as in the bible. They got their idea of the godhead from the nicene creed, sponsored by a pagan. Please educate yourself. seriously.

Johnnie2

8:47 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

It seems clear that evangelical bigotry is still alive and well... how disappointing.

Reply

maizenbluedoc

9:08 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

I didn't realize that theocracy was a prequisite to be president of the United States.

Reply

Mikedudical

9:53 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

@ Clavell Jackson. The ignorance you exude is so thick I could cut it with a knife. You take a handful of LDS teachings so completely out of context that even life-long Mormons have no idea what you're referring to. It is obvious your sources are all anti-Mormon and clearly show your lack of Biblical knowledge.

Temples, Sacred Garments, Priesthood restrictions, etc. It's all Biblical. Go to LDS.org and search to your heart's content. Bottom line, the Bible does not contain everything that Christ or his Apostles taught. Realistically it's only a very small fraction (John 21:25). Who gave the command that limited the Gospel of Christ to just the Bible? The Bible was put together 400 years after Christ's death by Catholics. The books aren't even in chronological order.

Reply

Bill Wade

11:34 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Evangelicals are the skid mark of the conservative movement. These people would destroy this country if it were left up to them. They gave us George Bush and they tried to give us Mike Huckabee.

So let me get this straight, I am supposed to believe that God won't fix this countey's woes until we regain our moral footing, so we should elect a serial adultering, intellectual elitist, crony capitalist, lifetime Washington insider who was slapped with ethics violations on his way out the door over a man who has NEVER had a hint of moral scandal, has lived the law of tithing his whole life, and given much time through charitable work, and has been married to the same woman for over 40 years? If the people listening to these religious THUGS on Sundays can't see through their blatant hypocrisy and bigotry then thy deserve to get Obama for 4 more years.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Roger Gunn

10:11 pm on Sunday, December 25, 2011

Well said Bill. Whole congregations have been brainwashed by the likes of Rev. Brad Atkins. Why don't these so called Christians preach the love of Jesus Christ for all the children of God rather than tear down beliefs of other religions.

Stan daMann

11:37 pm on Monday, December 19, 2011

Both of these guys are phony Christians like the whole Religious Right movement.

They are in it to protect the rich and to make life more miserable for the poor and for those who work for a living.

The whole Tea Party movement is full of hatred, vitriol and racism, and just plain meanness toward their fellow human beings who are in any way different from them.

They never heard of "Love one another". When do you ever hear about kindness and compassion from them?

Reply
Comment_arrow

Tonto

10:52 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Love one another and let the lazy freeloaders pick your pocket and steal money instead of working for it (aka a democrat). Compassionatly stealing other peoples money probably "for the children" of course.

Comment_arrow

Kyle

7:51 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Stan, what a loving way to put things. What a great example you are of what you hate.

Bill Wade

12:42 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

These people/churches should lose their tax exempt status, I'm not kidding either. Their political endorsement from the proverbial and literal pulpit is un-American, un-Christian, and at odds with our nations founding fathers. As was pointed out earlier they would have opposed every Mason president, these people are of the same ilk as the accusers in the Salem witch trials. The idea that these two-tooth, single digit IQ, holy rollers are grappling with this issue in the year 2011 while our nation is on the verge of bankruptcy with 15 trillion in debt is mind boggling.

A man who doesn't have any moral baggage versus a man with a truck load of moral luggage. A lifetime Washington insider And crony capitalist versus a successful private sector businessman who polls show can beat Obama. The one man the Obama administration fears most is being tossed aside for the low hanging fruit of all the Republican candidates, they couldn't be happier. Congrats!

Reply

5greatkids

9:50 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

So sad to see such bigotry from American citizens. Especially those on the conservative side. I would expect this from liberals -- "if you don't believe exactly like me then you are WRONG"--but well, just sad.

Do you seriously think Athiests would do a fair job of explaining what Born Again Christians truly believe? Why are you believing ONLY what anti-mormons say about the LDS church? www.lds.org for all the true facts--if you dare.

Reply

stanley seigler

10:31 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

@5greatkids: So sad to see such bigotry from American citizens. Especially those on the conservative side. I would expect this from liberals...Do you seriously think Athiests would do a fair job of explaining what Born Again Christians truly believe?

COMMENT ( paraphrasing)
Do you seriously think conservative ideologues would do a fair job of explaining what progressive, bleeding heart, liberal, christians truly believe?

so sad to see such bigotry (ie, expect bigotry from liberals not conservatives) from americans...actually bigotry is sad (stupid) from anyone, anywhere...

now for my bigotry, opine: there are far more conservative bigots than liberal bigots...this PATCH thread proves it in spades.

Gandhi said: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

think he got right...

Reply
Comment_arrow

Dr. John

12:03 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

Stanley,
I am surprised you are getting caught up in these non-starter arguments regarding racism. I believe that people resort to calls of racism/bigotry when they can no longer defend the real issues being debated. It is no longer about debating ideas but leveling absurd charges not related to the issue at hand. The more serious the charge, the more we expect the other person to just shut up. Stanley, you and I both know that there are people ( a small percentage) who are not capable of debating issues who will level out-of-this-world allegations and name-calling. Look up ANY of Mimi's comments and you will see a prime example. I am a conservative, I love everyone equally. That is, no one person to me is more important than another. I believe that conservatism, when articulated with truth and compassion, does not need a message for blacks, a seperate message for Hispanics or a different message for women. We all strive to do the best we can with what we are given, some will always do better than others. Some will fall behind and others will not be able to provide for themselves. It is our job as citizens to provide help to allow people to get back on their feet or, for some, provide compassionate care with dignity for those who cannot provide for themselves. I stopped posting here because some people used this forum for name calling, not to debate issues. Stanley, I enjoy posting with you. Leave the bigot/race speech to others who cannot debate w/intelligence.

Joyce Young

11:47 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

How would any of you other Christians out there like me to tell you you aren't really Christians? I don't like that either.

Reply

Joyce Young

11:59 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Concerning Satan being Jesus' brother--we are all brothers and sisters spiritually. We all lived with God in a premortal life, all spirit children of Heavenly Father. Lucifer (Satan) was a Son of the Morning then fell when he rejected Heavenly Father's plan for us on the earth. In that way, he is Jesus' spiritual brother just as Jesus is our spiritual brother. Each of us on this earth are spiritual brothers and sisters because we are all spirit children of God. If you want the correct information about the Church (the Mormons) go to lds.ort or Mormon.org. You don't ask a doctor to give you legal advice or a lawyer to perform surgery on you. Go to the right source to be well informed.

Reply

Diligent Dave

12:39 pm on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

I find it interesting both what the Southern Baptist minister said about Gingrich vs Romney, as well as what many of those commenting on that story have said (above).

Just as the ancient Pharisees and Sadducees cried for Pontius Pilate to free Barabas, rather than Jesus, so it seems that neo-Pharisees and neo-Sadducees are doing a somewhat similar thing. They want 2-time adulterer Newt for president instead of no-time adulterer Mitt. THIS SAYS SO MUCH MORE ABOUT THE BAPTIST MINISTER AND THOSE WHO ABOVE SUPPORT HIM BY THEIR COMMENTS THAN IT DOES ABOUT MITT OR MORMONISM!

As another or others have correctly stated above, Jesus' test of a "Christian" is "ye shall know them by their fruits". But, neo-Pharisees and neo-Sadducees say, "Ye shall know them by whether their interpretation of God's word lines up with our misconception of it or not" (essentially)!

Reply

Clavell Jackson

12:49 pm on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Why would I go to lds.org? That is the church's mouthpiece, of course they would hide all the controversial aspects of the religion. Firstly, I am an agnostic, so I tend to regard all religious myths with a grain of salt.

According to the Bible, Satan was a former angel. It is not clear if angels are considered to be sons of god, although he created them. This is like splitting hairs.

However in mainstream Christianity, Jesus is not regarded as being the brother of Lucifer. That's neither here no there.

And as for wearing holy garments, of course priests wear them, but point to me where in mainstream scripture, Christians are commanded to wear a specific form of underwear?

Again, this is all meaningless because we are arguing about which interpretation of a myth is real. That's like arguing how accurate the story of Goldilocks is.

Reply

Vanka

4:07 pm on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Whether you like it or not, Mitt Romney, Glenn Beck, Harry Reid, Jon Huntsman, and the rest all represent Mormonism. That is what the LDS Church wants, for every member to be a missionary and an "example".

But these people are miles apart on politics: Beck vs Reid, for instance.

what is the common denominator?

It is a scripturally-based vision of the (near) future with the Mormon Church having political dominion over the entire earth.

Partisan politics don't matter to these Mormons. Only Mormon dominion matters. Mormon Dominionism is a serious threat to this nation!

Such a vision of intolerant theocracy is not seen as a good thing by most Americans.

Both Mitt and his wife have been "anointed to become Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestesses unto the most high God, to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever".

The LDS Bible Dictionary states:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God on the earth, but is at the present limited to an ecclesiastical kingdom. During the millennial era, the kingdom of God will be both political and ecclesiastical (see Dan. 7:18, 22, 27; Rev. 11:15; JST Rev. 12:13, 7; D&C 65), and will have worldwide jurisdiction in political realms when the Lord has made a full end of all nations (D&C 87:6)."

D&C 1:14 says, 

"and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off..."

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris Bolton

8:18 pm on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Sorry Vanka, but of the four men you name, we have a liberal Democrat, a liberal Republican, a moderate Republican and a conservative Republican...all in good standing with the Church. This shows that the LDS Church is not some monolithic power that sends marching orders to the brain washed minions. We are allowed to make our own decisions.

LDS, like other Christians, look forward to Christ returning to Earth to rule. Your polemic in no way reflects actual LDS teaching. We LDS firmly believe that other churches will likewise exist on the Earth during Christ's reign. We in NO WAY believe that thos who aren't LDS will be wiped out. Your rant is intended to shed FAR more heat than light. Lying for Jesus is still a sin. You are a poor witness of Christ and a poor example of the Believers.

Comment_arrow

Joe Mormon

12:16 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Vanka, that is a very interesting interpretation. I've often enjoyed your anti-Mormon extremism and sensationalism but you should be more careful, some people might believe you. Most Christians believe that Jesus will be King when He returns, so, in trying to paint Mormons as weird (with your little spin, as you always do) you are also painting other Christians as weird, including Obama, and Newt. Other than that (your Mormon hating) I hope all is going well for you.

ev

8:40 pm on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Chris sorry, but you cannot defend your church since you are obviously brainwashed. You did not bother to tell us what planet you or you gods are from and what planet you intend to go to upon leaving this celestial place. Again your church has no comparison to the true chrisian church established over 1000 plus years ago.Now just to make you understand I could care less what religion anyone is....but you and Mutt aka Willard saying you are Christians is laughable. Have a great day and call me when you folks finally figure out where the golden tablet is that Joseph lost.....or maybe he melted it with the price of gold being so high!

Reply
Comment_arrow

kevin kirkham

12:22 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

ev, the problem that you and other anti-lds have, is that you try to shed more heat than light and enflame hatred based claims with little support. You guys shy away from calmly discussing the Bible and what it says. You don't want to try to explain/justify the Nicean and Athanasian Creeds because they can't be understood. It's all gobbledygook. It's based on pagan Greek philosophy brought into the early Church by the Gentile converts. A Google search will easily confirm this.

If you read what the bible actually says about who is a Christian, it talks about those who place their faith in Christ, call upon his name for a remission of their sins and keeping his commandments. The idea of having to believe in a Greek/Pagan Jesus in order to be considered a Christian is laughable. You are preaching another Gospel and another Jesus knowing neither what you say nor whereof you affirm. (1 Tim. 1:7).

Your mouth is writing a check that your Bible can't cash.

Comment_arrow

Joe Mormon

12:22 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Ev, I diagree. There are many great articles on early Christianity compared to the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Back in Joseph Smith's day people didn't know much about it, but miraculously he got it right. See FAIR lds Christian Doctrine of Deification, Christ the firstfruits of Theosis.....well actually first see "Restoring the Ancient Church" Hope all goes well. Don't be afraid to educate yourself.
And, as far as planets (I'm sure you don't really understand what you are poking fun at or you might not do it), many Christians believe God has a body (for Jesus died only once for sins). Saying He lives in real time and space is more logical to me than saying He is nowhere, or on top of the sky dome. And, we know what happened to the plates. There were witnesses : ). We still have the Book of Mormon and it stands firmly against all attack. Later...

Strange N. Stranger

11:45 pm on Tuesday, December 20, 2011

For an analysis of Mormonism and how it would affect Romney in the White House, see http://mittromneycult.blogspot.com/

Reply
Patch_comments_icon

Shawn Drury

12:29 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Note to the commenter who criticized the use of Wikipedia as a reference tool as something a high school student would do...the article referenced has over 130 footnotes. If you can find a high school student that is as thorough, I commend you.
While Wikipedia should never be used as a primary source--its founder has said as much, one would be hard pressed to find a better starting point for research that is both free and dynamic.

Reply

Joe Mormon

12:52 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

It makes me very sad to realize that there are people in America today who would let prejudices decide the fate of our Country. It is perhaps cause for even greater concern that there are a few people who intentionally spread lies and misinformation about the Church of Jesus Christ. They do this day in and day out and are always dishonest in how they portray their neighbors. This dishonesty and prejudice is not based in love or in the God of truth. The amount of misinformation out there about Christ's restored Church is alarming. Some won't even talk to a Mormon or consider the issues because they have been taught that we are evil.
I hope people will go to LDS org if they want to understand more, rather than believing those who would stir up hatred against people for their religion.

Mitt's religion should not be an issue. LDS are more educated than most Americans and the Church that Jesus re-established is the closest to the Biblical Church He established when He was on earth. His restored Church makes more sense to me than any I've encountered.
Christians most of all should be thrilled about The Church of Jesus Christ.
I hope we will vote for the best person, not based on prejudice or sensational misinformation. Prove all things.

Reply

B Middleton

1:56 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

In the conversations above it is interesting to note that Evangelicals can hardly be original Christians either as they can at best claim to be apostate Catholics that changed doctrines of the supposive church that Jesus founded. You can not make a live tree from a dead branch and thus if the Catholic church had failings and was in deed not teaching correct principles man is not told to go ahead and make up your own way. Either Catholicism is correct or Christ's church needed to be restored. NO one else really has a claim. In the New testament the apostles came across people who taught of Christ but did not follow and complete the ordinances of Christ's followers. The apostles came to Jesus and wanted to curse them for saying that they followed Christ and yet were not with them. Christ taught the desciples an important lesson as he stated "Ye know not what spirit ye be" and instructed them to leave them alone for those who are not against him are for him. With this immature and relying on man arguments going on I can only remind you of those same words.... Ye know not what spirit ye be. Somehow I believe that our Heavenly Father is really sad at the bickering going on between his children.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Sharon

3:41 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Clear. Precise. True. Thank you!

stanley seigler

9:46 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

unbelievable bigotry...i was aware prejudice and racism was alive and well in SC...but thought it focused on blacks and browns...didn't realize it's just as alive and well re religion...sad sad

BTW just wondering if the prejudice applies to the original religion, Sikhism (certainly not a Christian religion), of the SC gov...tho converted, believe she still attends Sikh services...

i think its a plus for the gov as the tenets of that religion are more Christian than Christianity...and Sikhs are truer followers of their religion than hypocritical Christians are of theirs.

also believe Mormons are more faithful to their beliefs than Christians

gandhi: "all religions are spokes on the same wheel...

Reply

Gary

10:41 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

I just thought I'd "chime in" on the debate about Mormons not being Christians. I have friends from many different religions including Mormonism. I have to say that Mormons in my opinion seem to be much better at following the example and teaching of Jesus Christ then many of my other friends who are members of religions considered to be part of the "Christian sect". I guess what I don't understand in all the debate about weather or not Mitt Romney is a "Christian" or not is....what makes someone a Christian? I believe it's simply believing that Jesus Christ is your savior. I believe that those who would dispute weather Mitt Romney is a Christian or not probably need to learn more about what it means to be "Christian" themselves.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Trevor

9:34 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

Gary, you are right and I thank you for your reasonable perspective. Jesus Christ actually had something to say on the matter: Matt 7:16-20, and Luke 6:43-45, 3 Nephi:14-16. James 1:5-8 also contains some pretty good guidance when it comes to discerning truth from error.

Sharon

3:36 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Mitt Romney is not a Christian?
Right. Just like the sun is not hot. Please folks, don’t lash out about something you know nothing about. Mitt Romney believes in Christ and lives more of a Christian life than any American president ever has…or will. No more hiding behind yours or your pastors’ prejudice views. Don’t be afraid to learn the truth – take a look. http://lds.org/?lang=eng

Reply

stanley seigler

5:20 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

@Sharon: "Mitt Romney ... lives more of a Christian life than any American president ever has…"

COMMENT
have no doubt mutt is a Christian and follows Jesus' teachings more so than most hypocritical Christians...butbut;

probably not more than any US pres...geo washington comes to mind then abe, BO or jimmy...

BTW mutt will not be the next pres...he will come closer than any of the current GOP gang...except for huntsman who the GOPs will not nominate...

actually makes no diff who the GOP nomination is...BO by a landslide in 2012...thanks to norquist disciples and gun toting TPers.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Kyle

7:36 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

what an ugly thing to say Stanley. So angry.... wow.

Comment_arrow

stanley seigler

8:12 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

have difficulty following some comments...but just stating facts...if some see them as ugly and angry...apologies and not the intent...i am not angry.

Comment_arrow

Tonto

9:42 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Stanley, are you the only one buying Obama's communist agenda? Any retired dog catcher could stomp Obama. Bigotry, racism, save the children, tax the rich, all Republican candidates are whores and scoundrels, Obama the tax cutter. What a total bag of feces :(

Kyle

7:34 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

According to the poll results here, Mitts religion is not a factor, no matter what the haters post. Cha-bam!

Reply

ev

7:54 pm on Wednesday, December 21, 2011

Kyle you are a moron!.................There is planet waiting for you and its called Mutt!

Reply

Lou

8:23 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

ev - It appears that YOU are the MOST "brainwashed" person on all these posts. Just because we have a different "understanding" of God and Jesus Christ does not mean we are talking about a different God or Jesus Christ. It is the height of pumpousness for YOU to be telling US what WE believe. Stick to telling people what YOU believe, then you will have a bit more credibility. And stop sucking at the teat of Baptist Ministers for your information about Mormons. All they are interested in is to protect their JOBS. The Mormon Church is growing at a much faster rate then theirs.

Reply

ev

8:39 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

Thanks Lou you have now totally convinced me that I am correct about Mormonis. As for "your church is growing faster then theirs",well you are at an advantage . So share with Lou us how many wives do you have???? lol

Reply
Comment_arrow

David

12:18 pm on Friday, December 23, 2011

Seriously? again with the wives comment?

You have nothing else to debate with? Come on... argue intelligently or get out of the debate.

Patrick

8:40 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints & I believe that Christ is the Savior of the World. I believe that true happiness in life comes through doing our best to live His teachings & that Salvation comes only by & through the Savior. Im not here to fight for Mitt or bash Newt, but to ask that we come together on the things we can agree on & work towards repairing the morally defunct state of our nation.

Reply

Lori Adams

8:52 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

If I remember right, aren't Mark Sanford and John Edwards from South Carolina? Not a very good track record. Why should the rest of the country care how the bigots vote there? The rest of us are voting for the best person for the job based on the kind of person he or she is. Thought this country was founded on principles to get away from this kind of thing. It's this kind of thinking that causes liberals to believe the way they do about religious conservatives. Come on people, join the modern world!

Reply

Trevor

9:20 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

Rev. Akins is absolutely right about the need to forgive and woefully wrong about "Mormons" not being Christians. I am a 43 year old member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and a Christian. I joined the church at 27 of my own free will. Most “Mormons” I know earnestly strive to lead Christ-like lives but like our Evangelical friends, are fully cognizant of the fact that in spite of our best efforts, we are ultimately saved by grace. I was raised in a Methodist, Lutheran and Episcopalian household and have therefore had occasion to associate with (and appreciate) Christians of many different stripes. In attempting to discern Christian from non-Christian, might I suggest that we consult a legitimate authority on the matter? Christ himself said, "Ye shall know them by their fruits." (Matt 7:16) I take that to mean that the membership card in your wallet or purse, or what you happen to call yourself, is not the ultimate arbiter of one's Christianity. It is preposterous for Rev. Akins to suggest otherwise.

Reply

Trevor

9:37 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

I also like James 1:5-8. Seeking truth? This is the key to finding it.

Reply

nana

9:37 am on Thursday, December 22, 2011

So the Mormon haters comments make me believe that they once were members and couldn't live handle living a more Christlike life, or had family\friend who are members or were excommunicated. Sorry you have had a bad experience with members of the church or the gospel. You have your free agency to choose who or what you follow. May you be blessed in your endeavours to find happiness. Bitterness can never be happiness. You will find that most Mormons are happy whether you like them or not.

Reply

LJ

12:01 pm on Thursday, December 22, 2011

Ev:
You KNOW full well that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does NOT practice polygamy!
The HBO (Big Love) "pseudo-mormons" portrayed are nothing but an apostate sect that rejected church doctrine so they could practice plural marriage. Ev, when you continue to apply the "Mormon" nickname to such groups and individuals whose fringe practices are rejected by the ACTUAL "Mormon" church (again, the correct name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), you demonstrate that you are either willfully ignorant of the truth (since correct information is abundantly available), or diabolically driven by an agenda to smear and create a guilt by association, when no association or relation exists. Again, I have difficulty believing that you don't know this already. Attacking a church for the sake of preserving your paycheck, or your pastor's paycheck was referred to in the scriptures a priestcraft. Money seems to be the motive in attacking a religion, using only distortions and outright lies. See what most evangelicals REALLY think by visiting evangelicalsformitt dot com. Last time, they admit that Evangelicals woefully failed the IQ test when they took the religion bait from Huckabee. But guess who Huckabee is supporting this time? You guessed it. Newsmax cited Huckabee's support for Romney recently. So if ol Huck can be honest about this...just sayin'. Give honesty a try.

Reply

Dana del Francia

12:48 pm on Thursday, December 22, 2011

I would like anyone to prove their religion to anyone else? Show me one piece of evidence that Jesus was reuurected and is alive today? Show me one piece of evidence that Moses tablets still exist? Show me one piece of paper that Jesus wrote on? Show me one piece of an original document from the writers of the New testament? Old testament? You can't prove any of it. Impossible! You may believe these things, stories, concepts, creeds, etc. but there is no proof baptists, Catholics, evangelicals, or Mormons can demonstrate that they are correct or that their writings are actually from God. It is by faith that religion is based on. Some have faith in the ancient writings in the present bible declaring they saw and heard visions and other things from God. In each of those intantances, most people did not believe them. The stories tell us, that most others never saw or heard any visions. Religion is revealed to mankind from God through chosen people. Some will believe and demonstrate faith, Most others will doubt. I'm a believer! I have faith in God and in His Son, Jesus Christ. I believe God lives and therefor can speak to us throug His holy spirit as well as holy scripture. Christ was a Jew but was told he was not a Jew by those who described themselves as true followers of God. This is the pattern of all revealed truth. The established churches reject the very God they profess to follow.

Reply

David

1:05 pm on Thursday, December 22, 2011

I suppose this is what you get when you lose site of the doctrine that "Faith without works is dead."

I am never disappointed when I hear the hypocrisy of the Evangelical lapdogs. They always sound like the little kids in their fort with the sign "No girls allowed." Mormons can't be part of our Christian club. "No Mormons allowed!"

You are more willing to accept that regardless of what sinful behavior one engages in, as long as he says Amen and Hallelujah, he's saved and should be trusted more than the man who actually has remained faithful to his wife for decades, has served (without pay) as a shepherd over a flock of congregants providing counseling, advice, assistance and guidance, has paid a faithful tithe and faithfully reads the scriptures and attends church every Sunday, not just on Christmas and Easter. (What was it Jesus said about "by their fruits?")

The main theme of the radical Evangelical right appears be as follows...

We will accept anybody who has been an adulterer, liar, and done absolutely nothing to promote Christianity, we'll love and accept Muslims, Gays, Jews, and even the child molesters and prostitutes, but by darn we won't accept them Mormons, cause they are just too weird."

Reply

David

1:20 pm on Thursday, December 22, 2011

When the Evangelicals start "hating" on Mormons and acting like children... ("No mormons allowed in our Christian Club") I am reminded of the Pharisees and how they reacted when this poor kid showed up and actually had the audacity to claim to be the Son of God.

Can you imagine that kind of chutzpa? How could he possibly be smart enough to claim to know anything about God? He is poor, only a carpenter's son and we are rich, educated, and we know so much more than he does.

We should not just ignore him, or love him for the good works that he is doing, we should hound him, call him names and make sure that everybody knows what a charleton and evil person he really is.

In fact, we should not only hate him, but we should have him killed because he certainly can't be one of us.

Hate!

Hate!

Yeah, that's what the Evangelicals make me think of when they react like this to one of them silly Mormons. Silly Pharisees....

Reply
Comment_arrow

Tonto

11:19 pm on Thursday, December 22, 2011

The Evangelicals would vote for a Muslim if he promised to line the pockets of the union they belong to :)

Al

2:44 am on Friday, December 23, 2011

Isn't the real issue how do you define a "Christian?" Isn't a Christian who follows Christ, is his disciple, and tries to do what he taught? Didn't Christ say "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" (John 13:35) Isn't love the hallmark or distiniquishing characteristic of Christians then? Christ said judge not and condemn not. Who is most Christian--Mormons who are almost always first on the scene after disasters to aid anyone in need, or those judging and condemning saying they are not Christians? How can anyone presume to judge who Christ is or what religion believes in the true Christ? Is that loving or being a true disciple and Christian? Are these not serious questions that all may have to answer when they stand before God on judgement day? Can a good spirit and feeling come from condemning Mormons and is that loving in any way? What would a true Christian do?

Reply

seayahlater

3:03 am on Friday, December 23, 2011

How does the title of this article "Forgiving Gingrich Top Mormon Romney" fit when the question is not even asked in the survey?
They survey question is: What matters more to you?
The Survey gives you two options either Newt Gingrich's personal history or Mitt Romney's Mormon faith? The results are overwhelmingly that more people care about Newt's personal history then Mitt's religion. There is nothing asked about which one would you be more likely to forgive... Whoever wrote the title of this article is worse than the Main stream Media about twisting the results of a survey around!

Reply

robert kramer

4:15 am on Friday, December 23, 2011

Hey Ev, you are just showing what a hypocritical retard you are. The real cult is the Baptist church which teaches all you have to do to go to heaven is say "Jesus come into my heart" and wham... you are instantly saved. They teach that after receiving Christ as your savior it doesn't matter how many people you rape, rob or kill, you will still spend eternity in Heaven just because you once asked Jesus into your heart. How cultish can you get? I was raised a Southern Baptist and they are the cult! Where in the Bible does it teach that those who preach the Gospel should get paid a salary? You keep saying that Mormonism is not Christian and that that is a fact...those are your wrong facts!!!

Reply
Comment_arrow

David

12:14 pm on Friday, December 23, 2011

Hey Robert Kramer, your name calling is not helping....

Disagree, fine. But don't be disagreeable...

SDR

9:45 am on Friday, December 23, 2011

Matthew 12:37 By your words you shall be acquitted and by your words you shall be condemned.

Reply

Lou

10:29 am on Friday, December 23, 2011

Intelligent readers here will be able to tell who is reasonable and true followers of Jesus Christ and who the sniveling retard is. Enough said.

Reply

Martin A

1:09 pm on Saturday, December 24, 2011

Let's see, am I more Christian than you? Hard to say. Over 650 separate faiths have a belief in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world, believe the Bible is the word of God, and strive in various (sometimes unique) ways to keep His commandments as they understand them. The Church Mitt attends (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is one of these. Romney believes Jesus was and is the Son of God and the Messiah, the Savior of the world. So what if every point of his faith does not align with every point of mine. For me, being a Christian is linked inseparably and primarily to a belief in Jesus Christ and secondly includes a sincere effort to follow Him in ones everyday living. So Mitt Romney is much more of a Christian than Gingrich, or any other Republican candidate that I know of, for that matter.
And he is the only one who understands finances, really understands. We have to make the call people, and America cannot endure another term with Obama.

Reply

Martin A

1:16 pm on Saturday, December 24, 2011

Doesn't someone who actually honors marriage and virtue through practice and example trump someone who has tried and failed, then tried and failed multiple times and who can only say, "Yes, but I will do better next time." I believe in repentance and forgiveness, but I also believe in example, and in example Romney wins hands down. In unsupported promises for the future that have no support in past practices, I would have to give Gingrich the edge. Is Gingrich good enough for this election? Not for me.

Reply

Don Goodlett

1:55 pm on Saturday, March 10, 2012

Mormons are Christians but the Southern Baptist Convention wants evangelicals to think differently. A different opinion from a Southern Baptist boy who married a Mormon girl. The SBC is hiding their true colors. WWW.MormonsMasonsandTemplars.com

Reply

Leave a comment